As we all know and have been taught since we we're younger that history repeats itself. In saying this there is no one thing that is a constant. There have been religions that have come and gone and it's still astounding to me that people think all of those are wrong but the one they have is correct. There is a start to everything and there is an end to everything. I strongly believe that there will be an end to Christianity or it will be so twisted from the beliefs that it will be a completely different religion with the same name.

I don't think that christianity will come to an end. Like the other global religions it has far too much power in the world (and money) in order for that to happen. The same can be said about islam. However I agree with you that both religions will be changed to the point, where they won't be recognisable as christianity and islam anymore. Look at the following site for an example of what might happen in a fictional future. :-)

christianity:

http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4625929c7a512

universalism:

http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/471feef0b5832

islam:

http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/484494c1bddf1

"There are those who scoff at the school boy, calling him frivolous and shallow. Yet it was the schoolboy who said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain

Do you always use other peoples quotes and ideas or are you so mind-fucked to the point of not being able to think for yourself?

"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." -- Bernard of Chartres; Isaac Newton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants

Specifically:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants#Application_to_the_free_software_movement

For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux

People that use the same name with a little variation - and can only post wiki and other addresses - and quotes from debunked scientists should shut thier yapper!

Anyone that looks around the message board knows you don't like Linda because she whips fundie ass.

Your not writtings answers to Marc S.'(or anone's) topics; you are following Linda around the message board (as usual-like for years) commenting on her in pseudonyms. Yes, Mark, to answer your topic, religion will end when the human race evolves further. Some of us are evolved enough now to leave it behind.

ZeroHuman,

Yes you are! Well, maybe I'm another "atheist" WAN-A-BE who copies atheist's comments because I really don't know what an atheist would say!!!

I even copy the insults that atheists fling at my ignorance (like willful ignorance) which is what Don called someone's apologetic.

By definition willful ignorance is when someone ignores anything that they are told that appears to contradict their beliefs or reality.

I thought a definition of willful ignorance would come in handy (for everyone) since (when the fundies aren't faking atheism) they seem to think willful ignorance means anyone who disagree with them; it' doesn't, it's when the facts disagree with them.

And...I remember the term "mental gymnastics" (used in a reply long time ago) to describe the chicanery that goes on with apologists, but recently it showed up on the message board as a topic!

Anyone interested in the remark "mind fuck" that everyone knows I use often to describe religious brainwashing should look at:

Look Under: Atheist Community Of Austin (topic) The "absent god" Clarke corollary

From: Linda (posted Jul 20, 2011 at 7:32 pm) "this mind fuck won't work? You are the one that made those idiotic remarks not me.

Pay close attention to the date of the reply - the phrase "mind fuck"- and who it was a reply to - AG.

From: onemorehuman (Posted Aug 14, 2012 at 6:59 am)

"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." -- Bernard of Chartres; Isaac Newton

Did you post all those Wikipedia references because you are mind fucked? Don't bother answering - I already know. Wikipedia isn't the last word in really good sound information - Anyone can click the "edit" link and edit an article. Obtaining formal peer review for edits is not necessary.

Onemorehuman, What is the reference to Isaac Newton proof of? If the point is not he was wrong about believing god had to intervene with fine tuning then it does not have a thing to do with religion not lasting?

Newton suggested that God must necessarily intervene occasionally to tune up the solar system and restore the order. Therefore, God's periodic special actions were needed to account for the ongoing stability of the solar system. Isaac Newton's theory of gravity was replaced by Einstein's.

Newton was wrong about about fine-tuning. But Newton was loving that Jeebus - so what the hey!!!

JB,

Ah yes, couldn't they use their real names -Billy Bob Joe (or any real nobody loser name would do).

Perhaps those who can't give a rational reference to actual facts, and excel at missing the point, always resort to attempted character & intelligence assassination, because how could anyone who wouldn't die for the pagan savior/three-gods-in-one myth be very clever.

ZeroHuman,

I'll bet you already knew Mark Twain didn't believe in x-ian hogwash. I'm sure (like most everything) you're an expert in mind fucking.

Would biblical quotes be better?

If anyone would like to read more improbable messages (with biblical quotes) that are an example of how an "atheist" quotes the scripture to another atheist, and then thanks a fanatic for long drawn out simple minded lectures.

Look Under: Atheist Community of Austin (topic) Selling Atheism

From: Chuck Johnson (Posted Jul 28, 2012 at 4:42 pm)

"Linda, Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. To do so would be unscientific. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

From: Chuck Johnson (Posted Aug 1, 2012 at 8:51 pm)

"AG, Thank you for your comments. Yes, I say that God is a lie that is thousands of years old."

Yes, atheists know that we sure do want to quote scriptures to other atheists and thank fanatical beleebers for proselytize to us on an atheist message board. Especially since beleebers are being prevented from telling their side of the story; it's atheists that are hogging every broadcast network- radio and television - I presume!

Here's another quote you could apply to this topic (if you're not too dumb) "I'd rather live with a good question than a bad answer." Aryeh Frimer -- zinging over their heads like a helium filled balloon.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

J.B. and Linda: I'm not "ZeroHuman". I'm a different person. My reply was directed towards "ZeroHuman", not you. By posting the above Wikipedia-links I just wanted to tell him that people can achieve so much more by building their thoughts on each other. That's all.

- From now on I will only post signed pgp messages on this forum.

- From now on the pgp key fingerprint of *all* my messages shall be

F5D4 2EA8 18CF 0784 E5B6 9F94 8DE5 E64A 6151 D343

I will use the alias "onemorehuman" for all of my signed messages.

If someone posts something here using a different key, know that that person is not me.

As I said only the above key will be used by me to sign my messages here and thereby establish my identity as "onemorehuman". -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (Cygwin)

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJQMUYtAAoJEI3l5kphUdNDud8QAKt8pGgFFSnPeQnYcreIeN3E DgBxSmk612L9w6NGNKk5NhNBsWQuaQaP6JhMD3hpcCvO+bPk5xipeFHNESSVTl5+ yovGAWOYYlpEL5XGv9PkaMP6wfGjNbseekc5Ys3bKuWNEaDXg6paW7XBMMoml+8x B3kEsHSwZ9lXmEIHyDI7Vr/QloKFfDX4ZixQ7t7q7nNsd1MN6FtErkqp+c50Fg1g 5QKZtgVUa7i3QM4f8Nk1SX1BmyqKm7t81sZ64xlIoby6kFVfn3iwYtN7HKdCoTu9 5B7Xetjk95Oqda4xBVskkJF+x5ES0OzZYJMeaU18T81zlv3fEbH/2fSLuiD5w9uY 1/vddoCifAl4fOig17gjSYVaerJbejHUUx6gRRhk5wkul5qbgmNr+zpaarOeH7gQ kCegIVh/rAKvFU59IEYKUoqPRmuLkNoj1VPEkFMghfvQR3EBFE5IGvkjp26L46hy q+lhBzei1XnWT8uKZOLqUFuwTi8tT62QdWzE+lto20oajXGRY6Tt1EpOZfIfdt7H p3iROowBPwleRWoyL4cloMQ2bIX63Vki5fXRDzQGtMBWwX7LLJ5sJ2hBi6YPKXWy HEvvgwMaht0+KePhWUBdbet3/GzLsISBEUQMSDecJfRxgLT0hXksrU+SVSqyMf0z m5elkAVn2b3lbBpuSoq/ =+sWa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Dear all,

It seems that my first attempt to post pgp signed messages here didn't work. At least I cannot validate the message posted above. I will make one last attempt to post a pgp signed message here. If that doesn't work, I will have to continue to post unsigned messages here and accept the possibility of an "identity theft".

So ...

- - I will only post messages here under the alias "onemorehuman".

- - *All* of my messages will be signed with the pgp key, which has the key ID 0x6151D343 and the fingerprint "F5D4 2EA8 18CF 0784 E5B6 9F94 8DE5 E64A 6151 D343".

(This means that if a message is a correctly signed message with the alias "onemorehuman" but signed with a different key, this message must be regarded as an attempt to "steal my identity" on this forum.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (Cygwin)

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJQM/q7AAoJEI3l5kphUdNDytIP/R5Ap3A0RNAKp66I2cDQIZZp jAgnt55znmhRrFOopl0ipb5xhKnxcxXcTFtBJwGbN8cFVa+E9FuMtolPtG75QjmH e4TtLZxaGQSvtU/Pj143YSGiySyrHVBq3aQjIeM4dZtG1l/moBMgmW5cQ1ya4LjK CgWAKp8qY6iBCGBE4cQkyJaC1VgtB3kIQLOOjEEdSLYfZpvCc67xGfGIHeOf+Itt RxQdaEgqkJVhwGuMkEGiCJWlI3GH9uQYuKnk4xfhn60QIEaWM9lN/6/6OMpiOm75 +4LSECeiIKkTZPYjDVaGYxM6Dct6733h125d7MQ+SDcksUpTyXyNPB4asl+u2njw BC/atxJrTs1RWHMaL1hO0Px7v8KS1atTgkkOBMYu/ZEnC04Too1AEmw2lc6I4qDI vOWko9otQnz1em6B8AZbkyzuY6Jnyx/V1VH2HVRdF3D1MpEP1aEFtZFCZ7W9vtbe ADlRKJoNa4HFfRa4LgY5J9XZjrmwyK45AYliRGiMzzrckBsrqdha4ihsxIziPPL0 vy7SaBlQMODF4JPUZJQTEFEx4nPKq47cSonRtEoXK4m5B33lTNz9bwORA47bvh+4 Omvr3qDoDUiNtIeU6ILh0BFv+T18FN4bV55u1OQa9PJzYAKHhx9Dc3TihXswgV2K PTLcyEdVQDkcA27/i7I7 =jioZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I didn't say anything about who anyone was. I asked what Isaac Newton had to do with doing away with religion?

Newton suggested that God must necessarily intervene occasionally to tune up the solar system and restore the order. Therefore, God's periodic special actions were needed to account for the ongoing stability of the solar system. Isaac Newton's theory of gravity was replaced by Einstein's.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The discussion developed as follows:

(1) "Marc S" posted a message that basically stated that either Earth's religions will vanish or transform into something new and utterly unrecognisable.

(2) I posted a reply, where I told him, that I think, that the latter case will come to pass: Today's religions will become totally unrecognisable to people from our time in the far future. And then I posted examples of some fictional ideas, people on orionsarm.com have been playing with, on how religions could transform in the future.

(3) Then you posted a quote from Mark Twain, basically indirectly stating, using that quote, that you lean more towards the first possibility that religions will vanish from the Earth in the far future. At least I hope that I understood you correctly. Although as I wrote in my first article in this discussion, I think that unfortunately today's religious institutions have far too much power, money and influence that they accumulated during the centuries that they probably won't just quietly vanish from the planet. In my opinion they are simply too powerful in order for that to happen. However I think that religions will have to undergo some kind of radical transformation in the future if they don't want to be isolated from a society, that will become increasingly rational in its ways of thinking. I posted a link to orionsarm.com as a "random thought" on what might happen in the future. Of course nothing is certain in the end. Maybe they will vanish, like you said. This is, why I didn't reply to your quote from Mark Twain. I felt that a reply was unnecessary, because your assumption, where religions vanish from the Earth, can come to pass as well. (In fact I hope that you're right!)

(4) Then someone, who called him-/herself "ZeroHuman", showed up and decided to post a snide and aggressive remark about your inability to think for yourself, because all you can do is quote other people.

(5) I felt offended by his posting and decided to defend you. So I wrote a reply, telling him (or her?), using a quote from Newton, that without humanity's ability to increase their scientific knowledge, using the knowledge of humans, who came before them, we would basically still be living in caves and use stone tools for survival. Or maybe we would have died out already.

(6) Then the "identity trouble" started. I don't know, whether Newton was a theist or atheist or whatever. Frankly I don't care. I just think that, what he said, was correct. That's all. If Newton was a theist, when - like any other theist - he would have to provide scientific evidence for his theories about a supernatural entity - apparently he failed to do so. But Newton's life and his beliefs have nothing to do with his correct observation that humans increase their knowledge by working together and sharing ideas with each other. We are "standing on the shoulders of giants".

So to answer your question: "What did Isaac Newton have to do with doing away with religion?"

The answer is likely nothing at all. Although my historical knowledge regarding his life is minimal. However this does not diminish the validity of, what he said about the accumulation of human knowledge. It doesn't matter, whether he was a theist or not, all that matters, is, whether he said something useful and correct or not.

Okay, now that everything has been clarified, I wanted to make a comment on pgp.

It was a partial success. My second signed message on this forum was signed correctly. However I had to manually edit the message after copying it to a textfile. gpg told me that the pgp-header was invalid. Apparently the forum software replaces newlines with whitespaces in a few places. So after copying a signed message on this forum to a textfile, you have to restore the header by replacing the whitespace, which comes after the five dashes and before the word "Hash", with a newline. If there is a whitespace after "SHA1", you have to replace it with a newline as well.

Now go to the bottom pgp header and locate the string "BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE". The whitespace before that string and its five dashes has to be replaced with a newline. Furthermore the whitespace after that string and its five dashes on the right has to be replaced with a newline as well.

Now save the modified text message and verify it, using gpg. You will have to import the key, I used for the message. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (Cygwin)

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJQN0ThAAoJEI3l5kphUdND3ykP/2r+KdPvTWk1pL6klXLl3qzc omdxIejyraaOkkTpiXPqLj7yfOUPzy4GFUWO09kcmMxOEX8KyyI2hJrFr3Au/ji+ YdqjMTNfUrYVKZ7q8sQgPN/edVDtibdfwuH7MuOaeSjwEamgPVA9Y/tbm2hEeDgy pp7bcQ/slgKf/VHPDqSjoBbJS+nskV9hsSce/RlDUkP0OR6q/EaAjauXg4jDcuc0 M1WjMwjWaMXTcq1nqlEz+9V0tVlY+Lg4v+rwJ+L0cDlLHQvtFG85/Mcam12B3HHh GJqPm0B1GXLE5PeIlST8OoNlzAh+E6FgE26WN7M1c5QZTOn+uWgN2krXyC5EZDEm /ZHkDlgHqmp2PzxUt14eicjz3gdfTVsk/AxBK0WiyoZVS51OCS3f5nzRW8/StWJH oXJKEH4hhm4G8IoC172iLnuH9oAKipknjo5+dlke05A4k68GU4RunQ3gSaU8BqqQ HGTKf532gBGJLRfa4opGbgb2ajr5Orwg/nx7+3zr06CwxiAy/Go6oo5SOHFdpg0z GaenCKEilhCVRL+qJjBsHIlF+HZeJruuF2z7Iq39p5s5LIGe+uv+yholUJJ4TLYZ FZpognevl2wA+MlzGr/Tu0YSs2gxRfFuuIQct0bpKh8/jISwHU9bY6HEEkRDw0aM I7BlKczjsck2dJVdoO39 =ikXS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----