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General Discussion
Prophecy in NT

Hey atheists, i was just wondering how you explain the 300 or so prophecies in the old testament that are confirmed and fulfilled in the new testament... and i know that atheists realise this is the case, so i would appreciate not to hear the typical statement "state your evidence" when it is universally clear that prophecies are fulfilled in the bible

I'm not a Bible expert. Maybe you could name the most compelling one and we'll look at it. I don't believe your claim of it being "universally clear". I have heard the claim before, but never the evidence.

As the Son of God Ps 2:7 Lu 1:32,35 As the seed of the woman Ge 3:15 Ga 4:4 As the seed of Abraham Ge 17:7 22:18 Ga 3:16 As the seed of Isaac Ge 21:12 Heb 11:17-19 As the seed of David Ps 132:11 Jer 23:5 Ac 13:23 Ro 1:3 His coming at a set time Ge 49:10 Da 9:24,25 Lu 2:1 His being born of a virgin Isa 7:14 Mt 1:22,23 Lu 2:7 His being called Immanuel Isa 7:14 Mt 1:22,23 His being born in Bethlehem of Judea Mic 5:2 Mt 2:1 Lu 2:4-6 Great persons coming to adore him Ps 72:10 Mt 2:1-11 The slaying of the children of Bethlehem Jer 31:15 Mt 2:16-18 His being called out of Egypt Ho 11:1 Mt 2:15 His being preceded by John the Baptist Isa 40:3 Mal 3:1 Mt 3:1,3 Lu 1:17 His being anointed with the Spirit Ps 45:7 Isa 11:2 61:1 Mt 3:16 Joh 3:34 Ac 10:38 His being a Prophet like to Moses De 18:15-18 Ac 3:20-22 His being a Priest after the order of Melchizedek Ps 110:4 Heb 5:5,6 His entering on his public ministry Isa 61:1,2 Lu 4:16-21,43 His ministry commencing in Galilee Isa 9:1,2 Mt 4:12-16,23 His entering publicly into Jerusalem Zec 9:9 Mt 21:1-5 His coming into the temple Hag 2:7,9 Mal 3:1 Mt 21:12 Lu 2:27-32 Joh 2:13-16 His poverty Isa 53:2 Mr 6:3 Lu 9:58 His meekness and want of ostentatious Isa 42:2 Mt 12:15,16,19 His tenderness and compassion Isa 40:11 42:3 Mt 12:15,20 Heb 4:15 His being without guile Isa 53:9 1Pe 2:22 His zeal Ps 69:9 Joh 2:17 His preaching by parables Ps 78:2 Mt 13:34,35 His working miracles Isa 35:5,6 Mt 11:4-6 Joh 11:47 His bearing reproach Ps 22:6 69:7,9,20 Ro 15:3 His being rejected by his brethren Ps 69:8 Isa 63:3 Joh 1:11 7:3 His being a stone of stumbling to the Jews Isa 8:14 Ro 9:32 1Pe 2:8 His being hated by the Jews Ps 69:4 Isa 49:7 Joh 15:24,25 His being rejected by the Jewish rulers Ps 118:22 Mt 21:42 Joh 7:48 That the Jews and Gentiles should combine against Him Ps 2:1,2 Lu 23:12 Ac 4:27 His being betrayed by a friend Ps 41:9 55:12-14 Joh 13:18,21 His disciples forsaking him Zec 13:7 Mt 26:31,56 His being sold for thirty pieces silver Zec 11:12 Mt 26:15 His price being given for the potter's field Zec 11:13 Mt 27:7 The intensity of his sufferings Ps 22:14,15 Lu 22:42,44 His sufferings being for others Isa 53:4-6,12 Da 9:26 Mt 20:28 His patience and silence under suffering Isa 53:7 Mt 26:63 27:12-14 His being smitten on the cheek Mic 5:1 Mt 27:30 His visage being marred Isa 52:14 53:3 Joh 19:5 His being spit on and scourged Isa 50:6 Mr 14:65 Joh 19:1 His hands and feet being nailed to the cross Ps 22:16 Joh 19:18 20:25 His being forsaken by God Ps 22:1 Mt 27:46 His being mocked Ps 22:7,8 Mt 27:39-44 Gall and vinegar being given him to drink Ps 69:21 Mt 27:34 His garments being parted, and lots cast for his vesture Ps 22:18 Mt 27:35 His being numbered with the transgressors Isa 53:12 Mr 15:28 His intercession for His murderers Isa 53:12 Lu 23:34 His Death Isa 53:12 Mt 27:50 That a bone of him should not be broken Ex 12:46 Ps 34:20 Joh 19:33,36 His being pierced Zec 12:10 Joh 19:34,37 His being buried with the rich Isa 53:9 Mt 27:57-60 His flesh not seeing corruption Ps 16:10 Ac 2:31 His resurrection Ps 16:10 Isa 26:19 Lu 24:6,31,34 His ascension Ps 68:18 Lu 24:51 Ac 1:9 His sitting on the right hand of God Ps 110:1 Heb 1:3 His exercising the priestly office in heaven Zec 6:13 Ro 8:34 His being the chief corner-stone of the Church Isa 28:16 1Pe 2:6,7 His being King in Zion

I asked for THE best one, not a regurgitated list. Let's look at the first one:

Psalms 2:7: I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

At MOST, this says the resurrection story has some degree of internal consistency. It says nothing about the truth of the story, so I don't consider this a fulfilled prophecy. Among other things, a prophecy would have to predict something that occurred in the real world. Are there any on that list that meet this criteria?

I predict there will be one that are actual predictions of well defined real events that are not commonplace events.

Holy wall of text, Batman!

I also agree that it's far from "universally clear" that any prophecy in the bible(let alone 300) have been "confirmed". And I'm a theist.

I'm pretty sure it's either self-fulfilling prophecy, or they wrote it in the NT to make it look like a prophecy was fulfilled.

Reminds me of the Nostradamus people who think his predictions have been "confirmed" as well. And atleast the events claim to be predicted actually happened.

The Gospels writings in the New Testament were meant to support a divine Jesus. The goal of the Gospels was to make the Old Testament or (Hebrew texts) so-called (prophecy) confirm the divinity of Jesus. Even though the name Jesus and His divinity was not decided upon until Council of Nicaea 325 A.D.

Studying the original Hebrew text reveals many misinterpreted words in the New Testament Gospels that were written by unknown authors long after the events they describe.Matthew was written at least 40 years after the lifetime of Jesus. Up to this point no other text mention the Virgin birth or Jesus. The Prophecy of the Virgin Birth in Matthew 1:22-23 quotes Isaiah 7:14 which was written 700 years before Jesus was born. Isaiah was not writing about a virgin birth (it was a young woman) and it was not prophecy. The woman was pregnant at that time. "If the quote is examined in context, it is easy to see that the young woman of the prophecy was Isaiah's own wife or concubine, and it was the birth of her son, or the promise of it, that was being offered to King Ahaz as a sign that God would protect his kingdom from its enemies." "No Holy Night" by M. R. Gates (1997).

So, if the story in Isaiah 7:14 was really supposed to be about "Jesus" it would have been the longest pregnancy (700 years) in the history of the world. That would be the real miracle, which everyone overlooked! The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" (the Hebrew for a young woman) as giving birth. The word "alma" but was translated as a "virgin" by the New Testament authors. The idea of mortals being impregnated by gods came from the first century pagans.

The Messiah is prophesized as coming from the line of King David. So, the apologists claim that Jesus traces himself back to King David through his mother Mary, who allegedly descends from David, in the third chapter of Luke. There is no evidence that Mary descends from David. The third chapter of Luke traces Joseph's genealogy not Mary's. Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn't help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father not the mother. Numbers 1:18 - Ezra 2:59

Some apologist attempt to fix this problem by claiming that Joseph passed on his genealogy by adopting Jesus. The reason that doesn't work is because Joseph could not pass on by adoption something that he doesn't have. Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30) According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon II Samuel 7:14, I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6. Luke 3:31 does not support the alleged prophecy since it describes lineage of David's son Nathan, not Solomon.

The word Messiah is a translation of the Hebrew word Mashiach. The word Mashiach means anointed. Exodus 29:7, I Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3 refers to an anointed King. The Jews were waiting on a King not a savior/god.

Isaiah 53 clearly refers to the Jewish people (not a savior/god) being "bruised, crushed and as sheep brought to slaughter" at the hands of the nations of the world. These descriptions are used throughout the Old Testament (Hebrew Scripture) to illustrate the suffering of the Jewish people. Isaiah 53 is about the Jewish people, the nations will recognize and accept responsibility for the unjust suffering and death of the Jews.

The Bible says that the Messiah will build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore" (Isaiah 2:4). "God will be King over all the world on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9). No one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King. There is no concept of a Second Coming in the Torah. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deuteronomy 13:1-4). The hypothetical Gospel harmony does not hold up since the New Testament has Jesus mocking Jewish piety and throughout the New Testament Jesus contradicts the Torah. Jesus also killed children for the sins of their mother Revelation 2:23 Jesus "I will also kill her children". The Old Testament says "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deuteronomy 24:16), so Christianity is false. In the Hebrew Scripture (Old Testament) human sacrifice is expressly forbidden.

There is no support for Christianity by any historian living at the same time and place as Jesus was said to have lived and performed his miracles. Not one Jewish, Greek, or Roman writer ever mentions him during his supposed lifetime. The writings (Gospels) by authors who lived long after the death of Jesus were not witnesses.

The New Testament Scriptures about Jesus' death states in some places that he was hung on a tree and in others that he was crucified on a Roman cross. Jewish texts tell a story of a (Y'shua ha Nozri) Jesus the Nozri was a moral (Nozri was a movement) he was accused of practicing magic and was stoned and hang on a tree. This is the most likely origin of Jesus of Nazareth. There was no city of Nazareth at the time of the alleged Jesus. Constantine mother St. Helena named an existing city Nazareth when she went looking for the city Nazareth and couldn't find one.

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." (Acts 5.30.)"And we are witnesses of all things which he Jesus did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree" (Acts 10.39.) "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulcher." (Acts 13.29.) "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness" (Peter 2.24.) Now if Jesus was hung on a tree, why say in Mark 8.34 "Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." It would seem Jesus was allegedly saying this long before he was crucified. And since Jesus was hung on a tree, what would this mean to his followers? For it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree" Galatians 3:13. It is obvious that the Roman cross story was a later addition.

There was never just one Christianity; there were many sects of Christianity in Rome, dozens of competing son/sun of god cults. The first Jesus believers claimed he was a spirit. Later he was born a human and was put to death. The whole story was assembled to try to unify a fragmented and fractious messianic religious movement. In the mid-2nd century the Jewish faith was purged from Christianity. The Christians remained a minority until one faction formed a political alliance with the Roman State. Orthodox Christianity remained unpopular for centuries and persecution was necessary to impose it on the people. There are many books that were in circulation at the time of the Council of Nicaea, and these were discarded because they did not fit the agenda of the Church of Rome. Only the four Gospels were put in the New Testament in 325 AD.

Biblical scholars and historians know that the Gospels, the source from which what we are told of the life and teachings of Jesus is drawn, are highly unreliable as history generally recognize it. Josephus mentions one Saul as having acted as an intermediary in inviting the Romans to attack Jerusalem; Saul of course was the name of St Paul before his conversion. In these circumstances, it would be entirely in order for Christian scribes to shift the blame for the death of James from Paul to the Jews. Otherwise it would be a major problem if St Paul and his followers assassinated James, the Lord's brother, in the Temple.

If people that believe this is Bible prophecy and live in fear of myths that are not true should try looking for answers in more than one book. The Bible is not the flawless, inspired, (word of god) it's the work of liars and forgers. Bible Prophecy did not come from ancient texts or those who could interpret the words of ancient texts. "The Abomination of Desolation" in Daniel actually refers to the Selucid King Antiochus Epiphanes, who plundered the Jewish Temple and sacrificed an unclean swine to the Greek God Zeus in 170BC. This is historical fact agreed upon by most reliable historians and Biblical scholars. The ignorant clergy turned it into biblical prophecy "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains" (Mark 13:14)

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