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Hope!

When I was a young boy my father was a drunk. Many nights I sat on the stairs behind a door with a knife in my hand ready to kill him if he touched my Mom. I went to a Methodist Church or my grandparents to find love and solace which lasted until I got home. Church was an utter bore. One day a family from church invited me to The Ionia Free Fair (Ionia, Mi). I certainly wasn't looking for Jesus but He was looking for me. SAVED at a religious booth! The difference in what I have and what you offer today is HOPE. In your humanist religion there is really no hope, no true happiness, for at the end of your days, POOF, you cease to exist. It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings to search it out. My hope lies in Jesus' promises. MJB

Michael,

We atheists would prefer to have our hopes based on reality. While you might think we are unhappy, we think you are wasting the few short years you have on this planet with false hope and fairy tales.

--Don

If Michael was truly happy, would he be trolling atheists message boards to taunt and provoke people? I think Micheal's god short-changed him. Obviously he did not receive all the happiness promised to him because he is still an angry person.

Michael, I'm happy for you that you found solace and escape from a horrible situation. The source of your hope is of no concern to me. My personal experience with Christianity, when I was a teen, brought me suicidal despair. Each of us finds hope in different ways.

For me, hope is no longer directed toward the future. It lies in the present moment, in the clear awareness of life exactly as it is. I find serenity in the absence of preoccupation with the past or future. I'm more responsive to what is right in front of my eyes, the person who is suffering or the tree that beckons me to look in silently awe at its beauty, even such trivial things as a piece of litter that I can pick up so that others don't have to see it.

What you and I probably have in common is that we don't live our lives entirely in the awareness that we have in our best moments. At times you may feel distant from Christ or you may feel as though you have alienated yourself and lost some of your faith. For me, I get caught up in regrets or expectations, judgmental thinking or selfishness and laziness.

Either way, we have both found something that helps us enjoy our days and become better human beings. I accept and respect your path and wish for you to have respect for mine, freeing your mind from the need to convince others that your way is the correct way for all beings.

Namaste, George

That was some kind of story Michael - playing on the emotions rather than the intellect "Guess Who's Behind the Door!" Please excuse the crudity but it is a crock of shit. I found nothing in this memoir to be even mildly entertaining. I'm sure everyone hopes that you enjoyed telling it, in spite of, it's never gonna happen, forget it! If you've ever been around happy people when you're miserable you think that it's them when it's really you. Do you mind if I give you a tip? Don't use extremely dysfunctional family stories to SAVE people. Did anyone feel saved? How "old" are you that "SAVED" has any meaning at all? I think you need to get your head on straight and stop spreading BULLSHIT! You are a big whiny baby. I can tell you stories about people who have been through way more and are atheists. Get a hobby. What I mean really is thank you; you're Goddamn funny! The thing is, I really do hate people like you! I have a better idea of what I want to do with my life. Am I the only one who doesn't think that a Fair with a religious booth is kick ass fun? I could just imagine a HOLY ROLLER coaster, corny dogs and spreading the gospel!? Puke!

You really must have no life to have the time to write about this kind of crap.

Linda, you're easily the most bitter, angry, hostile persona I've ever encountered online. What happened to you? What is the origin of your rage, and how does it help you and others to consistently vilify everyone who deviates slightly from your self-proclaimed superior perspective?

You've posted the longest messages on this board, some reaching the length of short novels or journal articles. Yet you have the audacity to accuse someone else of having no life because they post a few brief paragraphs? And you would surely justify your terminally pompous tirades by proclaiming, once again, the superiority of your intellect, I presume?

Thank Dog most atheists are not of your ilk, or I'd shy away from being associated with the label.

Linda's posts may be longer but they are by far not dumber. There are numerous pointless messages on this message board that didn't require any study and have many grammatical errors. Like the one on this thread. Someone needs to learn when to use silent and silently before they wax poetic.

"The Morality of God" that Linda wrote was well researched and not a waste of anyone's time. I knew that post would set theists spinning like a lathe. It does renounce the morality of the bible. I am an atheist and I have no problem with what was written.

On the other hand I have a big problem with what Michael Brown said, "The difference in what I have and what you offer today is HOPE. In your humanist religion there is really no hope, no true happiness, for at the end of your days, POOF, you cease to exist. It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings to search it out. My hope lies in Jesus' promises. MJB"

Atheists don't have a religion and many humanists are not atheists. That is just an example of someone's ignorance. I think all of the replies on this atheist message board were very mild compared to what many other atheists would have told him. What he is hoping for is a lie and unfortunately he won't know that because it is obvious that he got everything he knows at The Ionia Free Fair (Ionia, Mi) religious booth.

I've seen numerous pointless posts followed by pseudo-atheist remarks (in different pseudonyms) stating that they don't have any problem with stupid theist remarks. Remarks that most any atheist would have a problem with. Most atheists would resent being told that they have no HOPE because we have a humanist philosophy.

I don't HAVE to cultivate a friendship with theists, and many atheists feel exactly the same way - we don't owe theists a damn thing. When people reply to remarks that are insulting to atheists that is not comparable to people who are making personal attacks, and complaining about atheists on an atheist message board. They need to understand, they are atheists, and maybe there is a reason you're not agreeing with them - take a guess. Linda has been debunking their creationism, religion and erroneous remarks about atheism. It's gotta be a bummer to get all those Intelligent Design web pages up and here comes someone debunking the mess.

Her reply is not comparable to a theist telling people that "nobody should read anything she writes" and what she writes is "too long and boring" - Linda has never posted a remark like that about what anyone has written. She has only remarked on what was written.

I don't have a problem reading one page, and many atheists and others have written messages just as long - or longer. Theists wouldn't like what any of them have written, but it's Linda that usually debunks their pseudo-science. I would say that theists are not usually members of atheist groups, except I know that theists do join atheist groups for the purpose of taking the group over, and the chance to proselytize.

This is not an apologist's message board yet and it's nobodies business what anyone says to a bigot who thinks he knows something about atheists when he knows nothing. He has no right to promote his ignorant religious beliefs by insulting atheists and if anyone doesn't like it - shove off kit kat.

You seem to have skipped over the most important part of your story. What is it that happened at that religious booth that caused you to believe this?

Nobody knows what was originally written in the manuscripts that were picked out to compile the bible - all we have are copies of copies of copies etc. - no originals - nobody knows who the authors of the gospels were.

Proverbs 25:2 (King James Version). "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter."

This proverb is talking about Kings who did seek out "wise men" for their wisdom. The Proverbs were passed down from unknown ancient philosophers, and some were lessons of myths and fables. Some people erroneously interpret this to mean "secret things" "Bible Codes" (software). Only gooneys believe this BULLSHIT.

Mark 4:10 "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables."

OOH! "Another secret" it was very common when most people were illiterate to orally teach them (not because it was better) because they couldn't read. Mark 4:10 is referring to the 12 apostles teaching the illiterate people, but we still know that the Parables or Proverbs didn't originate with the bible they existed long before. Romans must have been relying on the stupidity and illiteracy of people to never know anything without someone telling them a story.

Proverbs 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

The only way to understand how the biblical book of Proverbs was composed is to study the Proverbs of Ancient Sumer that is the world's earliest Proverb collections. In ancient times they used Proverbs as a method of teaching in the schools.

When the Romans started burning libraries and books that didn't agree with the new religion, such as the library at Alexandria, we probably lost many books and the originals.

The Book of Proverbs was ancient "wise men" philosopher's "dark sayings." The Kings are advised by these "wise men" through their "dark sayings." There were men of the ancient past who were considered "wise men." The Book of Proverbs is a compilation of the proverbs spoken by these wise men. The biblical King Solomon supposedly put these sayings together in one book. These are ancient philosophical teachings and when understood they would have little relevance today.

There are parallels to biblical Proverbs in Ugaritic text, Egypt, and Sumerian proverbs. When the Ugaritic text were first found scholars didn't understand them until they eventually deciphered the ancient languages. They have used the Ugaritic text to more clearly understand what is written in the bible (from Ugaritic text) because many things in the bible didn't make sense because words were misinterpreted until they got the right word from the Ugaritic text. These are among the oldest writings.

"Proverbs were anterior to books, and formed the wisdom of the vulgar, and in the earliest ages were the unwritten laws of morality." Benjamin Disraeli

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