User Name:

Password:

FAQ Donate Join

Atheist Experience
thanks god, nice one!

My uncle just died after a long illness. He didn't "pass away" or "move on" or "go to a better place".

He died.

Horribly and in great pain.

He knew for two weeks that he was dying, his heart was giving out and he had no chance. For the final 14 hours of his life he begged the doctors for morphine which - by the rules of the medical profession here in Great britian - they were obligated to withold from him. After suffering the most unimaginable pain he died 10 minutes before his brothers and sisters could reach the hospital. Medical staff stated that his was the worst death they had witnessed. As a final insult, the doctors were obligated to attempt to revive him and spent a further 30 minutes pounding his chest in the hope of resucitating him to live a few more hours or minutes as a vegetable with heart failure.

Had this man been a dog he would have been put down but as humans we feel the need to cling to the belief that life must be preserved at any cost. If any glassy-eyed witless fool has the affrontery to tell me that this was the plan of any deity then I will take delight in causing that person some degree of pain and injury.

THERE IS NO GOD YOU FOOLS

Your argument makes little to no sense.

You start off with a short rant about the position of Great Britain on the right to die, then you conclude based on this that there is no god. That is a rediculous conclusion that has nothing to do with the preceeding statements.

You could argue from the information you gave that there is no benevolent god, but you cannot logically say there is no god based purely on that information. Your frustration is misdirected.

I agree.

This guy is the fool for making a conclusion that doesn't even connect with his premises.

Don't be so quick to label someone the fool, NobodyMan...

While his argument isn't the strongest one, you still should see the connection here. If god was a just and loving diety why does he allow such horrible pain and suffering. I understand we have free will which explains murders. But when we die of natural causes can't we just die? Why did god have to put twisted deceases in the mix? If creationism is true and we were created in gods image, then why did he create human body to be so suseptible to desease?

If god exists he either: A. Wants us to be suseptible ( I'm sure i'm spelling that wrong) to desease or B. He had no power over whether or not we are suseptible to desease.

If B is true then god isn't all powerful. If A is true then God is a jerk, or we have to be suseptible to desease for his plans to work. Wich would mean that B is true because he wasn't powerful enough to create a plan that didn't include deseases.

That wasn't a conclusion. That was a fact.

It's not as though he fell out of belief from this experience. This anecdote is the antithesis of those sappy stories where a loved one gets better after/while others pray for their recovery. That's what's going on.

Sorry about your Uncle, Frank. Let me extend to you our condolences and sympathy for you and your family. Our thoughts are with you at this time.

In the UK its not so much that religion is involved in the decisions that the doctors make here. There is the guiding principle of the protection of life. That doctors are obligated to keep someone alive no matter what the consequences or situation. They are not allowed to administer a drug to the detriment of a patient. If they had helped in his suffering then they would have been in trouble. I would find it very hard to believe that the did not want to ease your uncles suffering but rather are not allowed to do anything about it.

There have been some cases to try and change the emphasis from being "kept alive no matter what" to being "quality of life" however nothing has particularly been successful.

There are various parties that consider the law should be kept out of these decisions altogether and that it is an individual doctors or group of doctors responsiblity to make that decision. This is where I stand. That the patient should have a say in their care where they can but otherwise it is up to the professional that has the experience. Of course there would have to be safeguards and all that jazz to stop abuse of the situation.

I think that generally, as technology progresses and people can be kept alive in horrendous pain or vegatative states with no chance of recovery virtually indefinately then it will become more and more important.

To get back on track, our NHS (National Health Service) is not guided by religion but by budgets and the law.

I understood him, and I see his point. He is being influenced by his strong emotions, so I can understand why he didn't establish the points in-between points.

Great Britain has an official State Religion. Christians also make up the majority of the population. Their legislation can be strongly influenced by religious fundamentalists, which is the basis of laws that restrict personal liberty, i.e.; Mind & Pain numbing drugs and Euthanasia.

His Uncle had to endure more suffering than humanity would allow for dogs, because Faith-Heads believe in souls and eternal damnation.

To say that there exists an omnipotent & omnibenevolent god is contradictory, as he experienced first hand. For a Faith-Head to throw some brainwash-jargon at him is adding insult to injury. Either their god does not exist or their god is a prick that is unworthy of praise.

I don't really think he'll do bodily harm to any individual; he's just blowing off steam in a psychologically healthy way…by writing an angry letter.

The Hippocratic Oath is to do no harm. If the patient's death is unavoidable, then comfort and an individuals will to dignity trumps all other obligations.

I've been a warrior for most of my life. I'm a teacher now, but I still fantasize that my end will come on my feet and fighting. If I can not be so lucky as to die in combat, then I would like to punch my own ticket through honorable suicide, as opposed to some drawn-out and painful death (taking care not to leave any sort of mess for someone else to clean up).

My views on death are reflected in my views on life. Death is nothing to fear, because it is nothing. Something trumps nothing, so long as it is a pleasant something. When this something has been guaranteed to become full of despair until nothing is reached, then I'll happily declare my stop, and jump off life's trolley.

I live in the United States, where it is illegal to commit suicide or obtain medicinal euthanasia. This imposes upon liberty like no other legislation, by declaring ownership of life.

Suicide and Drug prohibitions are drawn directly from religious law. He is angry with organized religion for its hand in his suffering, and his uncle's suffering. He is angry with Faith-Heads for giving power to organized religion.

He does not believe in the god that the Faith-Heads uphold as a reason for the laws that caused this suffering, and he is therefore justified to say that "THIS" particular god does not exist because it is contradictory in nature.

@Frank

Yes, there is a God. It's me. And I'm not done yet making the world. Once done, it will be heaven. My tool is evolution, I don't interfere with divine magic or something - the system is complete.

If you want to make an omelette, you have to break some eggs. It's bad that this is so, but that's the way it is.

Imagine the world to be a balloon which is blown up. Currently, it is not yet blown up enough not to have ugly wrinkles.

Your name suggests that you are Mormon, but your philosophy of being a god seems to imply that you are a Jehovah's Witness.

Besides, I know you are lying about being God, since I AM!

My name suggests that I am the Maker. And your reaction of claiming that I can't be it because it's really *you*... I have had that many times. Because I am a) the truth and b) only just arriving, people tend to turn facts exactly upside down. Your reality timing might now reflect that, but in a counter-intuitive way, not really visible to you.

Damn! I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition! Nor did I expect you to draw my attention towards my own personal perceived perspective of reality timing. So, your right, I'm not the god.

I'd still like in on this ultimate power thing, but I will never worship you. So...can I get an application for the position of Anti-Makeroni? But I must insist that my headquarters be located in the Bahamas, as opposed to being comprised of brimstone and fire...

You can't oppose me for I am life itself.

I hereby command you to be happy.

All right, if you can't say anything nice to each other don't say anything at all. One of you will have to be god and the other one can be the devil. You can't have one without the other.

"All right, if you can't say anything nice to each other don't say anything at all."

WTF is wrong with you? "I hereby command you to be happy" is not nice in your eyes? Happiness = bad? OMG

"One of you will have to be god and the other one can be the devil. You can't have one without the other."

That is only true for certain religions / gods.

It's not happiness- it's the childishness - and the OMG!

There are all kinds of beliefs out there with a variety of either dogma or spiritual beings involved with many. The exception is the non-believer who does not need ideology dogma, deities or both (the putting away of childish things.)

If the devil had not sinned and wasn't cast down to earth there wouldn't be any religion, and therefore no need for god. God sends people to hell not the devil.

However, any god worthy of our time would have to be there for a reason, and if there were no devil we wouldn't need a god. Xians need to tell people that they are going to hell. They can't threaten people with hell if there is no devil! They also wouldn't have a philosophy; good and evil, darkness and light, heaven and hell; this is required in all mythologies and religions.

Xians get around blaming god for the bad things going on in the world by blaming it on the devil. When you ask them why god can't do anything to stop it they usually don't have an answer, but some claim things like god is outside the realm of the natural world, or other pitiful excuses.

I think it is a waste of time pursuing something with so many loopholes and no proof of anything. Those who believe in anything paranormal need to wake up and smell the baloney.

Really sorry to hear of your Uncle's suffering, and the loss experienced by yourself and family.

On the topic of euthanasia, I too cannot grasp the mentality that would allow such suffering among humans, it is unnecessary and cruel - and as you say even our pets are afforded more dignity and compassion.

On the topic of God, I must agree with the poster below you. I concur that no "loving" and involved God would allow such suffering, but this says nothing about the idea of a pantheistic God or similar.

Anyway, best wishes for yourself and loved ones.

Follow us on:

twitter facebook meetup

ustream.tv