I found this on Reddit and did some searching - and could really not find anything which states that one has to die to go to Heaven or which mentions an afterlife.
"Contrary to any belief, the Bible holds no hints, nor does it depict in any form a heavenly afterlife of endless leisure and grape-eating"
Since this belief is, I would say, very much widespread, it makes me wonder that it seems to not have emerged from the Bible. Actually, those who believe all of this would also claim that it is somewhere in "the book", right.
Any thoughts (or Bible passages) on this?
The "The Egyptian Book of the Dead" more accurately called "The Book of Going Forth By Day" was the ancient Egyptian bible and everyone had one. Egyptians believed that in the afterlife they lived forever in a place of plenty and beauty.
The Ten Commandments given by God to Moses on the top of Mount Sinai clearly come from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Except for the first two they are the same moral rules in the Hebrew Bible that are also found in the Egyptian hieroglyphic writings (long before Moses received the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai.) Egyptian religion was a polytheistic belief, and hundreds of gods and goddesses were worshiped in the Nile valley. These deities were believed to manifest themselves in certain images and the artists of that time captured these images in pictures and statues.
Also, unlike the Israelites, Egyptians believed in a second life after death. They believed that every person has, other than his physical body, a dual spiritual nature, which they called the KA and the BA. They also regarded the name and shadow of a person as living entities, part of the spiritual existence, not just linguistic and natural phenomena. Egyptians regarded death as simply a temporary interruption rather than a complete cessation of life, and believed that after their death, they faced a trial in the underworld before the god Osiris and his forty-two judges in the Hall of Judgment. In the Egyptian culture, eternal life had to be ensured by various means, including the preservation of the physical body through mummification, the provision of funerary equipment, and the presence of magical spells in the tomb to protect the dead person in his journey in the underworld. The idea of preserving the body came from ancient Egypt embalming. A funny thing about that is - I read that since they thought that the heart was more important than the brain they just scooped out the brain and threw it away. What's this icky looking gray stuff ooooooooooooh - lets get rid of it.
It has been discovered that the 10 commandments are based on chapter 125 in the Egyptian book of the dead. The Book of the Dead originates at least from 2600 BCE contain instructions for life after death, a sort of manual. The Hebrew version (10 commandments) originates also in Egypt 1490 BCE.
The only difference is that the Hebrew version is shorter, the 42 gods are replaced by 1 god and the sabbath has been added. This version has been passed on to the Christain community totally disregarding the fact that they took a selective chapter out of the book of death.
Unless you are as dumb as a rock, what is being conveyed is, it doesn't matter because the idea of an afterlife, soul, and being judged didn't originate with the Christians it came from the Egyptian book of the Dead.
Bud sounds like a lowlife country music listening, illiterate redneck, and racist pig (if it's brain was dynamite it couldn't mess it's hair up) who answers questions it wasn't asked and doesn't have the answers.
She proved that the ELEMENTS ARE NOT ENCODED IN Genesis and wiped the floor with it. Only a xian would try to prove that. Or get on an atheist message board to save Christians and attack the atheists.
Dirtball you don't have any answers.
Why so offensive, what did I do to you, bully. Now, to the Table of Elements in Genesis. As I was clear, there was a lot of writing so you didn't catch it, I understand, I clearly stated several times that I didn't believe it.
It's hard to stop some people from trying to make their stupidity the center of attention on any atheist message board. I have seen the same things on many of the other message boards.
Were any of those answers what you were trying to find out?
being atheist doesn't require class, does it. So many atheist are anti-religion. religion helped earlier man create civilized societies. and of course it was often ill-used. the United States was the last and greatest attempt to create a world in which man had no sovereign. it is our job to continue the effort; not to choose up sides. we must politely educate the primitives and radicals by sharing information, not name-calling. so keep it clean guys
From: "linda" (Posted Jun 16, 2013 at 6:47 am) "linda" said, "being atheist doesn't require class, does it. So many atheist are anti-religion."
LINDA SAID: This so-called "linda" isn't me. Why would atheists spread ignorance and superstition, especially when they have taken the time to educate themselves about the true origins of all religion? Maybe you should try to do the same.
"linda" said, "religion helped earlier man create civilized societies. and of course it was often ill-used. the United States was the last and greatest attempt to create a world in which man had no sovereign."
LINDA SAID: We've had this argument before (many times) and under many names. Evolution is why man lived in communities because it helped man survive and morals evolved in order to help man survive. Religion came after that and I don't think that the Crusades or the "Salem Witch Trials" are an example of helping anyone. America was the breaking away from the idea of divine rule, which is in the Bible, which instructed people to obey the King. The people who started the American Revolution were men of the Enlightenment - they were not Christians.
"linda" said, "religion helped earlier man create civilized societies. it is our job to continue the effort; not to choose up sides. we must politely educate the primitives and radicals by sharing information, not name-calling. so keep it clean guys "
LINDA SAID: I don't know who this "linda" is who wrote this dumb little diatribe but it wasn't "LINDA". Could this be the maladjusted little fake that posts after just about every comment I make, and copies what I've already stated (it changes the wording a little bit) though? I think it wants to be me. I didn't and wouldn't write a message like this one because I think that anyone can talk any way they want to; it's a free country!
I'm not the one who has tried to control the message board (but we all know who does) no matter what name religion or non-religion they are using now.
She is always off topic, thanks for bringing that up, I'm glad we got a real debate started. So, okay, Egypt is where the afterlife came from, what was I saying…ah yes, she is off topic. Linda …. a fake name I'm sure, but she's probably not the only coward, on this chat. Important topic though. What drivel. What utter poop.
This is the answer if you mean they went to heaven alive.
Bible verse(s) that express the idea of an afterlife or that one has to die to go to Heaven?
The story of Elijah going to heaven is found in the Old Testament, in 2 Kings 2:11. Here Elijah and Elisha were walking together: And it came to pass, as they went still on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
This is a combo of afterlife and if you have to die to go to heaven. I looked at it a little more and this is the best I can do. If it's not what you want it's free. Anyone making complaints won't get their money back.
Psalms 115:16, "the heavens are the LORD'S, but the earth He has given to men."
John 3:13, "no man hath ascended up to Heaven." Enoch was bodily assumed into heaven without dying.
There were nine people who went to heaven without dying in the Jewish Midrash.
The ancient Hebrews had no idea of an immortal soul living a full and vital life beyond death, nor of any resurrection or return from death. (Gen. 2:7; 3:19). The Hebrew word nephesh, traditionally translated "living soul" but more properly understood as "living creature," is the same word used for all breathing creatures and refers to nothing immortal.
In ancient Hebrew there is no view of the future for the individual human person, certainly not when contrasted with the later ideas that arose-such as resurrection of the dead or eternal life in heaven.
The books comprise Isaiah through Malachi, primarily in these texts written before, during, and after the period of exile by Hebrew Prophets that the afterlife view starts to change.
And with Christianity it evolved. Man does not have an immortal soul. Souls can die, Ezekiel 18:20. In the day of a man's death, his thoughts perish, Psalms 146:4. 1 Corinthians 15:51. Verse 52 the dead in Christ won't go to Heaven when they die--they will be resurrected to eternal life when He returns.
And that's the way it is - according to bible babble.
2 Corinthians 12:2 - "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."
Linda ignored that "the bible" because there is nothing credible about that book, any scholar would. However, she is dead balls right on target saying that the idea of an afterlife came out of Egypt. No one knows what was in the original autographs. The earliest manuscript we can find were written in the 4th our 5th century, several centuries after the estimated date of the initial writing of the original gospels.
Of all the 66 texts in the Bible, there doesn't exist one single handwritten original. We don't even have the first copies of the originals, we just have copies of copies of copies of copies etc. They often mixed fiction with non-fiction, and some could write texts in the name of their adversaries to discredit them and then use the forged text against them later. The earliest versions of the gospel of Mark appear incomplete. The ending we now have was added later. Bart D. Ehrman is an American New Testament scholar who says that there are more differences between this various manuscripts than there are words in the Bible itself.
I would ignore that myself. The Egyptian belief with the concept of the "after-life" explains why the pharaohs got buried with all the earthly possession. The idea of the "after-life" was in turn borrowed by the Hebrews during their 400 years among the Egyptians. The same thing goes for the concept of angels and archangels.
Tanakh, is an acronym for the Hebrew Bible consisting of the initial Hebrew letters. The Torah was the law and the Tanak the (BIBLE) The complete Hebrew Bible is called TaNaK. So, I guess it all depends on what you are calling a verse in the Bible.
Sheol is one word sometimes translated as "Hell" in the Old Testament. In Hebrew, this word is a proper noun, that is a name or title, so properly it should not have been translated but simply transliterated, as is done with other names. The literal meaning of this Hebrew word is simply "subterranean retreat". Sheol was not understood as a physical place since it exists in the spirit world, but it is a spiritual "place" associated with dead people. It was understood that when a person dies, their body is buried, and their soul goes to reside in Sheol. That is the fate for all people who die, both the righteous and the wicked. According to Hebrew scholars, anything more detailed is conjecture and speculation. Sheol was mistranslated as "hell". Not that this is anything but myth but it was all one place not two.
This same "place" called Sheol is experienced by the righteous as "gen eiden", the Garden of Eden or Paradise, "heaven". Moreover, Sheol is experienced by the wicked as the fires of gehennom, punishment. But the idea of an after life originated with the Egyptians and was adopted by the Hebrew and misinterpreted by the Greeks.
A person who is not an atheist simply wouldn't understand that there is no concept of a reliable important book called the bible where we get answers. We get our answers to things like, where did that myths come from, by looking into ancient civilizations and what the scholars say, not the forgeries and lies in the bible or from the apologists.
The simp who said she was off topic is the one who never gets the point. He just posted some science on the topic "proof that god doesn't exist" that proves just how dumb he is. His comments were completely off topic, and he couldn't barge in on that conversation, because he is far to stupid to know what they were talking about. Next to Linda's where he always is.
Of course he already proved his stupidity by say Egypt was off topic when the idea of an afterlife came from Egypt.
I wanted to add, what the fuck is wrong with not getting it? I know I won't get sympathy from Linda, because she wasn't even leniant to the fact that she was correcting someone's spelling who wasn't a native speaker of English with rude comments, but I am handicapped mentally.