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Atheist Experience

In episode #478 about Theomatics.

Russell mentions he wrote a Perl script to debunk Theomatics. I did the same thing many years ago! When I added up the ASCII values of "HOLYBIBLE" (all caps) I got back 666! It gave me quite a laugh.

Roman patricians wrote the New Testament, among them The Calpurnius Piso family that was descended from one of the generals in the army of Alexander the Great. The Piso testament created a new state religion that was designed to give hope of heaven, fear of hell and a masochistic philosophy of humility and self-subjugation to the slaves. To the slaves, the "Old Testament" was intended to mean the Torah (actually the Septuagint, or Greek translation of the Torah). To the royals, the Old Testament was intended to mean the "last will and testament of Julius Caesar."

The number 666 has been an "evil" number since the dawn of Christianity. It can be expressed in Roman numerals as VIVIVI. Of course it can also be expressed as DCLXVI. VIVIVI refers to the phrase VENI VIDI VICI penned by Julius Caesar. The number of the beast is the number of Julius Caesar, and Caesar is the beast. It is easy to see that, from the point of view of the Pisos, Caesar was the beast that betrayed them and destroyed their temple.

Also, to add that in the Hebrew scriptures, seven is a symbol of completetion or perfection (often associated with the divine). You have the 7 days involved in creation (including the rest at the end). You have the 7 divine seals in Revelation. It is used countless times in symbolic language, and is also incorporated into Revelation, which relies heavily on ancient Hebrew symbols (borrowing from many OT verses). Revelation describes 7 angels with 7 plagues that complete the wrath of god:

Rev 15:1: I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues--last, because with them God's wrath is completed.

When you look at the symbolic symbolism that divine things are "complete" with the number 7, in the Hebrew stories, you then get a better idea of what 666 meant to a Hebrew: Imperfection, after imperfection, after imperfection. The "Beast" described in Revelation is "like" god--but falls short of god's perfection.

I was under the impression that 666 came from Nero (who spelled his name 616), the first Anti-Christ, but repeating 6's is scarier.

Numbers mean things to faith-heads. Long ago, it is believed that numbers were forms of 'shorthand.' 3 is many, 6 is imperfection, 7 perfection, 40 is a-lot, 1000 is to many to count, etc. In China 4 is good and 8 is bad.

There's the Hindu Triad & the Christian Trinity, Jesus & Buddha spend about 40 days in the wilderness, and there are 333,000,000 Hindu gods...but I always thought they should say 333,333,333 gods.

Anyway, Numerology is a cracked belief system.

Yes, your right - that's what I think Theomatics is about. The assumption is that Theomatics can prove the existence of god from what I have read. It is the belief that the Bible contains some type of secret, hidden code. I think they use numerological study of the Greek and Hebrew text of the Christian Bible, based upon gematria and isopephia; its proponents assert that it demonstrates the direct intervention of God in the writing of Christian scripture. Theomatics concluded that if the technique were valid then it would be possible to demonstrate mathematically that God supernaturally intervened in the writing of the Bible.

Each letter of the Hebrew alphabet possesses a numerical value. There were three alpha/numeric systems in use at the time when the NT was being written - Hebrew, Latin (Roman Numerals), and Greek until about the year 80 CE, the Greek system consisted of only an old initial system. This is just another searched for proof of the existence of God; or a way to prove that God exists. There are a number of people who have shown that it doesn't work for various reasons. I think the most obvious reason is - The ancient Canaanite city-state of Ugarit, which is very important for studying the Old Testament. The literature of the city and the theology contained therein go a very long way in helping understand the meaning of various Biblical passages as well as aiding in deciphering difficult Hebrew words. Several of the Psalms were simply adapted from Ugaritic sources; the story of the flood has a near mirror image in Ugaritic literature; and the language of the Bible is greatly illuminated by the language of Ugarit. The greatest discovery made at the site was a collection of tablets carved with (a then) unknown cuneiform script. The script is a combination of pictograph and script. Pretty hard to think that would help prove a number system (pictures). In 1932 the identification of the site was made when some of the tablets were deciphered; the city was the ancient and famous site of Ugarit.

Putting together the fact that the writing was in cuneiform and script you realize that the Theomatics would not work for the O T.

The Piso family wrote the NT - Arrius Piso (Josephus) developed a 'new' Greek system and incorporated it into the New Testament. The 'Alpha/Numeric' system (meaning that this is one system incorporating three different main languages and their number equivalents). Flavius Josephus (Arrius Piso) hints at the use of what he calls 'triangular numbers'. He is also the mathematician circa 100 CE called Nicomachus. This 'Nicomachus of Garasa' was Josephus/Arrius Piso, because 'Nico' is 'Victor' or 'Winner', and 'Machus' means 'of the battle' (of Garasa).

Julius Caesar 100-44 BC, deified a god l00 years before the birth of Jesus who was also deified as a god. Julius Caesar was murdered at the height of his power; Caesar was elevated to a God after his death. Unlike the mythical Jesus Christ, we know what Caesar looked like (statues and paintings) and we have a complete history of his life. We have words written by Caesar himself and words written by his friends and his enemies. Artifacts confirm his life and death.

Flavius Josephus the so-called Testimonium Flavianum) Josephus confirms every important aspect of the Christ-myth. Not a single writer before the 4th century - not Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian, Arnobius, etc. - in all their defences against pagan hostility, makes a single reference to Josephus (Testimonium Flavianum). The third century Church Father Origen, He quotes from Josephus extensively. Yet even he makes no reference to this from Testimonium Flavianum, which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. In fact, Origen actually said that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ." Origen did not quote the Testimonium Flavianum because this paragraph had not yet been written. It was absent from early copies of the works of Josephus and did not appear in Origen's third century version of Josephus, referenced in his Contra Celsum.

Just proves that forgeries and people who probably never existed can't prove the existence of god no matter what they do mathematically.

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From the officers:

The audio and video from Steve Bratteng's July 13th lecture are now available.