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Non-Prophets
I'm an Atheist but not a Liberal

Been listening to the archived shows on the atheistnetwork.com site. You guys have some raw energy and apparently aren't constrained by the FCC rules of decency which is a breath of fresh air. Keep it up.<br /> <br /> For background, I'm a rabid atheist. Rejected catholicism 20 years ago. I go well beyond just rejecting theism to reject all forms of superstition as well. <br /> <br /> In listening to the non prophets show, I guess I can understand how you guys would have been rooting for Kerry to win, seeing as how the religious right were backing Bush, and this being Austin, the most liberal city in Texas. But I personally couldn't stomach Kerry for other reasons.<br /> <br /> I guess what I'm saying is, you can be an atheist and not be a liberal. Bush has trampled our constitution, but Kerry has shown to be no better in squelching other constitutional rights. I don't want to pick and choose which rights I'll have trampled. I demand all my rights; I'm not willing to compromise at all. <br /> <br /> So classify me as an atheist libertarian. There are other atheist-compatible political viewpoints. Please don't assume that all atheists are liberals. Thanks.

Hey, I'm a christian here. We can talk about the evidence that God exist.

Then start a new thread.

Hi, Mark.<br /> <br /> Your point is well taken. We're aware that there are non-liberal atheists, but let me make a couple of points.<br /> <br /> 1) WE are liberals. And it's our show ;-)<br /> <br /> 2) Yes, there are non-liberal atheists. However, they appear to be rather rare. I have a theory about why that might be, and it's related to my final point:<br /> <br /> 3) Civilisation didn't get from authoritarian religion to true religious freedom without liberalisation in the area of freedom of thought and expression. That people should be free to think what they want, and to speak what they think, are *liberal* concepts. Libertarian, too ;-)<br /> <br /> So thanks for listening, and I hope we don't offend you too much. But if we do, well, tough ;-)<br /> <br /> -Jeff Dee

A discussion over dogma is meaningless; if people have to explain why they are freethinkers that’s fine, but the need to explain that your not liberal shows what a good job the right wing fanatics have done smearing liberals. I prefer to say that I look for the essence of truth in what I choose to believe. The definition of liberal is tolerant, broadminded, freethinker, progressive. Liberals are not champions of immoral, tasteless, behavior or toilet humor. Unfortunately, this is a method of avoiding any discussion of serious and real issues. I have seen too many nasty people in groups not to suspect that they are there to impede those with real objectives. When in truth the most malicious people are also usually the most sanctimonious. I have met people in a variety of situations who have to proclaim their political positions, or religious affiliations. I always wondered why they felt it important to tell everyone in a group that has nothing to do with religion or politic what stance they held.

A meeting of the freethinker group I visited was made up of conservative freethinkers; I wasn’t surprised when they said it was the “church“ of freethinkers. The reason they gave for declaring themselves a religion was they needed protection! (From What?) They met on Sunday in their church with a pastor and then after the meetings went to eat where the “church” crowd dined. The reason they need a pastor is that freethinkers are skeptics, and a pastor keeps watch over their freethinking. Skepticism needs monitoring or it could get out of control. That’s freethinking? The environmental group was in safe conservative hands also. They informed us that many Republicans believe in recycling, but I can’t figure out how that will effect waste from nuclear power plants, clean air, water, or anything that should be regulated? The deregulation friendly environmental science behind recycling is; it may not save the environment but it sure saves money. The so-called peace rally (not a war protest) was totally run by Christian conservatives. In the beginning of the war the protesters were being steered to church controlled peace rallies. We met in a park to listen to speakers who did not talk about stopping the war, and were even more worried about being thought of as liberals than the freethinkers were. Toward the end a veteran of Vietnam was about to speak, but the organizers had to talk to him first. They were pressuring the speaker to turn the rally into an altar call, which he actually refused to do. Because when he got up there he said, “I love Jesus as much as the next guy, but this just ain’t gonna get it.” Good for him.

Many people and businesses are fleeing the high crime areas where there is a church on every corner, and one in-between, but it’s not safe to go to the garbage can. (Maybe we need a fanatic wall.) It starts with an aversion to liberals, and then out right bullying toward liberals, and then they leave. This is the modus operandi to turn a state red; unless there is a hurricane, and the liberals that survived have to move out!

I’m just a person who believes that everyone has the right to think, and the right to speak about what they think.

I am a Christian and i am so thankful of that. AS far as a liberal and non-liberal athiest. If you are an athiest you are of a liberal mindset. Show me a conservative athiest. Every conservative i know or have ever known is a believer in God. Having Christian based morals and beliefs are the basics of what a conserative is in the first place. He is my ideas on all of this: If a person is follwoing Jesus in the first place he/she will not have to even wonder about this. Once you realize that GOD is in control of everything it won't matter what you think about liberals or their beliefs. GOD will have the final say and i hope that you wake up and realize that being an athiest you WILL not see the gates of Heaven. Here is the question you need to ask yourself: Is it better to have de-nounced Jesus, lived and died as an athiest and fouud out that there really is a GOD or is it better to have lived and died as a Christian and found out that there is a Heaven and a GOD ???? I choose GOD and i pray that one day you will too! May GOD continue to bless you and the USA

You cannot assume your own limited knowledge equips you to understand how the world works. There are plenty of conservative atheists. Visit Google groups and do a search for posts in alt.atheism written by Fester or Fred Stone; they're ardent Bush supporters and are willing to defend him and conservative values against any all comers, which simply goes to show that atheists can be just as illogical as any theist. And, of course, there are conservative members of the ACA, too.

<!i>Having Christian based morals and beliefs are the basics of what a conserative is in the first place<!/i>

No, fearing change is the basic ingredient of a social conservative, and greed is the basic element of an economic conservative.

<!i>Is it better to have de-nounced Jesus, lived and died as an athiest and fouud out that there really is a GOD or is it better to have lived and died as a Christian and found out that there is a Heaven and a GOD<!/i>

Pascal's Wager. Look it up.

Actually my point was that I don’t need to know what others have faith in politically or religiously. I can’t imagine why anyone feels the need to announce this wherever they go. What’s the big deal? Would you tell someone to be a “Christian” if they were Jewish? People who accost others with their “beliefs” are offensive; especially since they don’t care at all what anyone else believes and have no respect at all for those people they consider beneath them.

The government of Rome crucified Jesus for sedition ... They thought this would stop a movement against a tyrannical (Antonym Liberal) system that made slaves out of men. When it didn’t work they tried to bring diverse groups together for fear of a civil uprising or war….So people who never even knew Jesus, and likely were in cahoots with the Roman government went out to start a religion to keep the sheep following after those who were leading them down the garden path.

The conservatives got control of this government through red baiting, and calling liberals pinko’s, but I never heard of a communist throwing a family from their home. As for the conservatives being the people on the moral high ground Jesus said, “sell everything you have and give it to the poor and follow me.” This sounds a lot like a Marxist.

Are the conservatives the patriots who support the troops, but don’t want to pay taxes. If there was no profit in war there wouldn't be any. There is a greed for profit and greed for power in both parties. There is a desire to make slaves out of people. But oppression can’t control people; it will bring them together.

I have no intentions of ever wasting my time on unfounded fabrications devised to control people. My ideology is going to be about freedom.

We know what religion is: AUTHORITATIVE

Feedback about the forum! I'd like to give some feedback about the Forum, I am surprised how few people use it, here are some of the issues I have observed and heard from members:

1. From the homepage there is no apparent direct link to member forum. I find it each time by going to the blog and going to the disclaimer where it gives you the link to Member forum. Could you maybe make it more visible, and more people will use it.

2. Quite a few people have mentioned that they submitted non-offensive posts and that their posts got pulled (happened to me the other day) this will surely discourage people.

3. Some people have mentioned that they submitted a post and no reply from w/s staff was ever received..that will surely discourage people.

thanks for listening and have a great day! Marita

My homepage http://plantar-wart.ibelgique.com/map.html

Here's a response to your questions/issues.

1) In the navigation menu on the left, click on on "Interact Online", you'll be directed to the "Message boards". There's also "Yahoo groups", which gives information about the Yahoo groups that we manage. Most people interact there. The message boards here were something of an experiment. We're hoping to replace the board with something even better than the Yahoo groups at some point in the next few months.

2) Because of the simplicity of the message boards mechanisms, they have been targeted by spammers. A number of mechanisms have been put in place to block them. It's possible that your mail messages have been caught by our (admittedly primitive) spam filter. One sure way to get caught is to have too many links in your e-mail. The spammers are generally trying to draw traffic (and influence web search results) by creating links to their paying sites.

On a related issue, I moderate the lists and I try to only drop posts that are clearly spam. There are some other rules related to copyright issues (see the disclaimer), but I haven't had to enforce that in a while.

3) Sometimes it takes a while to get a response because, as I mentioned, most of our members direct their energies to the Yahoo forums. If anyone needs an immediate response on an issue, the "Contact Us" page (again on the left navigation panel) is the best way to go. As far as I have seen, most issues/questions get a reply at some point.

It's also helpful to make posts in the category that's appropriate. Your post would have been better made as a new topic under "general", rather than buried in another thread.

--Don Baker

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