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Atheist Community of Austin
Christian Hypocrisy and Intellectual Dishonesty

Many christians don't believe in evolution but will continue to take advantage of modern medicine which has as its foundation the theory of evolution. They will declare that the earth/universe is less than ten thousand years old while still utilizing the products of modern science which has determined that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and the universe is 13.7 billion years old. They will decry science and the scientific method as flawed while enjoying their cell phone, computer, and GPS devices that are predicated upon quantum mechanics and relativity. All disciplines of science are interconnected--disciplines from one area are necessary for disciplines in other areas as nothing in science stands alone.

Christians will declare that gays should not be married because of the bible while at the same time not caring about other transgressions of Mosaic Law such as breaking the Sabbath which, like gay behavior, require the offenders to be summarily killed. They act like they don't understand that marriage is, first and foremost, a legal contract that bestows certain specific rights on couples. People who are married in a religious ceremony are not officially recognized by the state unless they fulfill the legal requirements for marriage. In this religions can still keep the "sanctity" of religious ceremonies while allowing gay people to get legally married.

Jesus said don't judge people yet Christians judge gay people all the time.

Jesus said give away your money yet Christians strive to be rich.

The first commandment of the Christian god is put no other gods before him yet many christians are going to vote for a republican who does not believe in the god of abraham, whose god id not a trinity, is not eternal, was at one time a man, who fathered Jesus through carnal relations with Mary, and where Jesus has a spirit brother in satan. By voting a Mormon into office they will be elevating his god above theirs and validating his ideas and the Mormon religion and may even be bringing about the fulfillment of a Joseph Smith prophecy.

Christians believe that their particular flavor of Christianity is true and will grant them eternal reward when in actuality all that they can really say is that if the there is a god and Christianity is "correct" then some group of Christians might have it right while others must be excluded and therefore not be granted reward. The best example is if catholicism, which created such concepts as the trinity, is correct, protestants won't get to heaven. And if protestants are correct, even though they maintain most the concepts put into religious law by the early catholic church, then Catholics won't get reward. There is no one Christianity and therefore there is no one way to salvation.

Most Christian denominations follow the opinions and decrees of Paul and not those espoused by their God, Jesus.

Christians do not realize the the god of abraham gave contradictory information to the Jews, the Christians, and Muslims that will insure that not all three groups will be rewarded in the afterlife. At the very least, concerning Islam, the God of Abraham allowed Mohammed to say that he got his information from an angel of the Abrahamic god and form a religion that would damn billions of individuals.

Christians believe that God created every animal but will say that before the fall, all were vegetarian and there was no death meaning that Man, by his supposed transgression, created black widow spiders, box jellyfish, rabies, amoebic dysentery, tigers, great white sharks, etc, etc. Who is the greater creator, here?

All Christians I've ever met believe in the power of prayer for some effect. But they also believe that God is perfect and has a plan and knows the future with equal clarity to the past and does not change. Several million children each year die in the world yet God answers a Christian prayer to keep their family safe or help someone in the hospital or help someone through financial trouble.

I'm very tired of Christianity. I'm tired of all religions but since I live in Indiana I'm almost inundated with these morons.

All right, Christians, show that I'm wrong in anything I said. Tell me that when you vote for an anti-christ believer you aren't committing a grievous sin. Show how the Christian movement in America isn't fraught with idiots. Show me how Christians opposing the rights of gay and lesbian individuals isn't highly selective religious bigotry. Show me how you aren't judging them.

Go ahead, make my day.

I agree to what you say, but you are merely preaching to the choir. Those types of Christians, listed there, will never access a site like this because they don't WANT their beliefs questioned. They think it's all a BIG conspiracy and what the reverend says it's true while we atheists are vile, wicked people who just want to turn them away from God. The few theists that DO enter here also don't believe in Catholicism, their belief is somewhere in the grounds of "there is a Deity, and there was a Jesus Christ because I saw a lot of "documentaries" and read books by Dan Brown. It's just that His message was intercepted by these greedy men who created Christianity, and altered to fit their needs.". These people have passed the first stage of utter denial and are actually searching for the TRUTH, that's why they come here, because they are curious. Here, they are in conflict with us because their valor system is different and in order to change it, they have to TRUST the one who's arguing with them to understand them, which will never happen. This is why I don't agree with Linda's acid approach, because showing hostility will only make things worse: the first thing we should to is try and show them that we are their fellow human friends who only want to help them reach that truth and not sell them some other bull.

So, yeah, Christians are ignorant and hypocrite. But their true numbers are dwindling as more and more people have access to information. This information here is good, but misplaced. You should post it on Catholic or hardcore believer sites. It will be deleted eventually, but at least it would reach some of the target audience.

Foxman Said: This is why I don't agree with Linda's acid approach, because showing hostility will only make things worse: the first thing we should to is try and show them that we are their fellow human friends who only want to help them reach that truth and not sell them some other bull.

Thanks for saying so, Foxman. The acid approach includes: drama, accusations, name-calling, and obsessive rants.

The messages of atheism are better served by messages dominated by logic and reason.

I would like to see these message boards conducted more like a scientific journal where the ideas are the star of the show, not the personality behind the idea. Your message and Mark Loy's message are examples of the message being clearly presented without the drama.

There is another very important reason for atheism to mimic the scientific model. This is because science moves forward and gets somewhere. Religion moves forward slowly or not at all. We must not let atheism evolve into "just another religion". Atheism must evolve into another scientific discipline.

The advantage of science is that it moves forward, accomplishes important things, and then continues forward. The disadvantage is that the body of scientific knowledge is huge, detailed, and elaborate. Time, work, and intelligence are needed to make science go forward. Many people have decided that this is "too much like work".

The advantage of religion, on the other hand, is ease of entry. You can get baptized or "saved" very quickly, even if your intelligence is minimal.

The disadvantage of religion is that it is a belief system suited to days gone by. When religion is applied to today's problems, disaster results. If religion could learn to move forward and adapt to the needs of modern people, then it could be a successful world view. But then it would no longer be religion. It would be science.

Re: "So, yeah, Christians are ignorant and hypocrite."

Don't you think, this statement somewhat stereotypical? Not all Christians reject evolution. Genetics was started by a monk, big bang theory was created by a Catholic priest. This seems to be an unjustified generalization. It's not much different from saying that "homosexuals are immoral", for example, is it? Aren't there ignorant and hypocritical atheists?

I agree with opposing certain views and attitudes that Mark pointed out, but labeling all Christians as evil does not seem to be particularly useful.

Believing in a God makes you ignorant and hypocrite. There is no stereotype in that. You are a hypocrite to yourself for bathing in such delusion. You are an ignorant to not see that this is a very highly unlikely thing to be true in such a Universe, and you constantly shut your eyes and your ears only to continue to lie to yourself. You keep promoting this idea like it makes you special and smart: it doesn't and anyone who states that his imaginary friend is real is a moron and should be treated like that, regardless of how many people he can gather to agree with him.

But ignorant and hypocrite does not equal evil. You can be an ignorant, hypocrite benign person very well.

OK. I can agree to being ignorant and hypocrite.

Re: "You are an ignorant to not see that this is a very highly unlikely thing to be true in such a Universe, and you constantly shut your eyes and your ears only to continue to lie to yourself."

How do you know what I see and what I do not see? And how do you know that I shut my eyes and lie to myself? I think, evolution makes sense. I don't believe that Earth is 6000 years old - I understand, there is evidence that it's around 13.7 bln. years old. Creation story is, perhaps, a metaphor. And I don't want you to believe it. So, just by the fact that I believe in God, you made an inference that I'm an ignorant moron, lie to myself regarding creation of the world, and shut my ears to "truth". Well, that seems to me like a stereotype. I don't "keep promoting" religion and I don't think, I'm special or smart. I'm just trying to see if there is anything special or smart about atheism. Do you know what it is?

Regarding imaginary friends, there is a psychological research that says that this is quite a normal thing and is not necessarily an evidence of any psychosis.

http://imaginarycompanions.uoregon.edu/book.html

"Ignorant", "hyporcrite", and "morons" seem to be just your attitudes towards other people. I don't think that these are scientific terms or can be considered as facts. :-)

This characterization is based solely on a belief in a God, this has nothing to do with Creationism - that takes ignorance to a new level. I didn't say you lie to yourself regarding the creation of the world. I just said you lie to yourself. About what? Well, about what the relationship and benefits of your relationship with this imaginary friend. And don't get me wrong, there's nothing abnormal in having imaginary friends, it's abnormal to actually think they are real. The need for this imaginary friend is based on a need to feel special, to manage to cheat one's way through life by employing divine forces in his favor, to cheat death and achieve immortality. This right here is the carrot on the stick. The moment you accept the above as not being possible, the moment you remove the delusion created by one's survival instinct (one does not want to die therefore he deludes himself that he will live on after death), from that moment forward you can say you removed the shackles which make you a hypocrite with yourself.

And don't give me that "stereotype" bull. It all stinks of some defensive argumentation in which calling "stereotype" on my post will nullify it's context, whereas you have already shown to not have actually got what I was trying to imply by saying hypocrite.

AG Said: OK. I can agree to being ignorant and hypocrite.

AG, Ignorant is part of the human condition. - - - You are ignorant of some things, but knowledgeable of other things.

Calling yourself a hypocrite is a serious business. Ukrainian (apparently) is your first language. Maybe your understanding of the word hypocrite is a little off target. Hypocrisy involves being deceitful in order to represent yourself differently from what you know yourself to truly be.

Are you attempting to deceive?

Doublethink is a word coined by George Orwell to describe an unresolved logical conflict.

If you are engaged in doublethink, then you hold two mutually exclusive ideas in your mind, and you believe them both to be true.

Are you engaged in doublethink?

Re: "Calling yourself a hypocrite is a serious business."

Calling others hypocrites without calling myself a hypocrite is hypocrisy.

Re: "Ukrainian (apparently) is your first language."

Russian, actually. Ukrainian is second.

Re: "Maybe your understanding of the word hypocrite is a little off target. Hypocrisy involves being deceitful in order to represent yourself differently from what you know yourself to truly be."

Quite honestly, I do not know who I "truly" am. I'm trying to figure it out. It's a process, you know...

I may be, in fact, less religious than I appear or try to appear. Is it good or bad?

" If you are engaged in doublethink, then you hold two mutually exclusive ideas in your mind, and you believe them both to be true. Are you engaged in doublethink?"

Remember the quote from Scott Fitzgerald? "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

Doublethink, seems to be a quite normal thing: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/11/first-person-plural/307055/

When a physicist describes electron as a wave in some situations and as a particle in others, is he engaged in doublethink?

Many christians don't believe in evolution but will continue to take advantage of modern medicine which has as its foundation the theory of evolution.

Mark, The theory of evolution is the foundation of modern biology. The study of medicine goes back at least to ancient Greece. Look up Hippocratic Oath.

Mark Loy said: Many christians don't believe in evolution but will continue to take advantage of modern medicine which has as its foundation the theory of evolution.

From: Chuck Johnson Mark, The theory of evolution is the foundation of modern biology. The study of medicine goes back at least to ancient Greece. Look up Hippocratic Oath.

Yes, medicine has been around since the time of trepanning and bleeding people and a belief that disease was caused by demons but that is not what I'm referring. Modern medicine is based upon the biological sciences which have at their foundational core the theory of evolution. Hippocrates came up with an excellent philosophical statement about physicians but that doesn't mean that medicine isn't a biological science. If someone simultaneously decries science and yet takes advantage of the scientific method and all that the biological sciences have to offer modern medicine he is dishonest and intellectually bankrupt even while the good doctor is following the sound advice of Hippocrates.

Mark Said: If someone simultaneously decries science and yet takes advantage of the scientific method and all that the biological sciences have to offer modern medicine he is dishonest and intellectually bankrupt even while the good doctor is following the sound advice of Hypocrites.

Mark, you said "intellectually bankrupt" and I think that this overstates your case. Would you say the same thing about Matt D. and Tracie H. during their lives of christian fundamentalism? Would you say the same thing about a child who is being raised by fundamentalist parents, and is compelled to agree with logical absurdities?

Would you and I be judged as being intellectually bankrupt by highly evolved humans centuries from now? - - - Those guys are bound to be so much more clever than you or I.

Compartmentalized thinking can be a serious obstacle to intellectual success whether you are referring to religious or secular thought processes.

So what can be done? You and I know that this isn't just a theoretical or philosophical question. A great deal of real harm is done every day by people and by societies that are not interested in resolving these logical conflicts.

Are these people unlovable to you because of their compartmentalized minds?

Do they become lovable to you when they "see the light" and get rid of their ancient superstitions?

A planet full of logical, lovable, skeptical people is a desirable goal. How do you suggest that we should proceed?

One way to make all people in the world lovable is to change our own attitude towards them :-).

Is this supposed to be some *really* and truly atheists saying things for no particilar reason to just anyone?

Or is it about a really and truly religious fanatic humbe answering? If it is forget it since we're not interested in tolerant religious fanatic diplays.

What's a "really and truly atheist" or "really and truly religious fanatic"? How do they differ from "really but not truly" or "not really", etc.?

Does truthfulness of a statement depend on who says it? Are you more interested in intolerant displays? :-)

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